I am very happy with that result, it is a good indication that my corrosion resistance predictions are working. R-2 Steel. M390 measured better for toughness but I am still not sure why M390 did as well as it did in this toughness test, more experiments are coming. This makes sense as higher carbon means both more carbide and higher carbon in solution, both of which negatively affect toughness. Vg10 vs vg max vs sg2 So I'm trying to expand my knife collection and I'm having a hard time understanding the three of these. You can see how they rank vs other steels in the chart below: I have an experimental result for CATRA slicing edge retention testing of VG10. In addition, such an angle works great to offer to chop, cutting, and slicing. The Tojiro DP Gyutou is the full-blown budget option in the best Gyuto knives list. I have personal experience with both VG-10 and Japanese knives containing Takefu SG2, which should be the same steel used in Fallkniven's "G3" set up (they take a Takefu SG2 core and … Whether you’re a professional kitchen chef or an amateur cook, Japanese knife you should pay particular attention to the type of steel used in the … SG-2 is a powdered stainless steel that is well known for excellent wear resistance and is considered a great … SG2 is a bit higher in toughness than S30V but below S35VN, … Much lighter, much higher quality steel (research SG2 vs. VG-10), and 101 layers of steel to form this knife. I did three toughness tests using our standard subsize unnotched charpy specimen. Perhaps this was simply the result of re-spraying the samples at a slightly different rate or some other source of variation. The vanadium carbide is relatively low because of the interactions with chromium which limit vanadium carbide formation. Shun makes their blades out of “super steels” called VG10, VG-MAX, SG2, and High-carbon “Blue.” These materials are highly refined, have superior edge retention, and are resistant to chipping and corrosion. So I consider both steels to be stainless. Asesoramiento experto. VG-10 exhibits many of the same qualities of 154CM with the … Your email address will not be published. Strength and toughness are comparable to that found on VG-10 or 154CM. Thanks for your work, this is the first in-depth info I’ve been able to find on this steel. The carbon aspect is minuscule in the blade’s makeup, however. Molybdenum helps to improve corrosion resistance, Tanaka Ironwood: Ideal Beginner Gyuto You’ll Love to Pick Up – Kytchen Knyfe N00b. However, because VG10 has this minute amount of carbon, … The inventors also performed a wear resistance test using the Ohgoshi abrasion tester. The cobalt was likely added to increase tempering resistance so that VG10 can be used with coatings that must be applied at high temperatures. Shopping. Guide To The Best Knife Steel: VG10, Blue Steel And More. Therefore in slicing tasks that lose sharpness due to wear we would expect SG2 to be a bit below S35VN. All in all, the red stripes on the handle look amazing! That means the steel would have been developed in a similar time to 154CM. One might think that knife is only about the handle and blade but it’s more about the sharpness and the edges. Super Gold 2 (SG2) is another grade designed for knives by Takefu, the patent was filed in 1991 [4]. It is a small notch below 440C which is about in line with where it would be expected based on its volume of chromium carbide: I do not have an experimental value for edge retention of SG2, but it can be estimated using its carbide content and composition. VG10 is a decent Japan-developed alternative to 440C with some added cobalt for tempering resistance. With its combination of relatively low Cr with high Mo and V it looks somewhat similar to S30V as well, at least superficially. Then I ground the samples and finished them to 400 grit, which is intended to simulate the finish of a factory-produced knife. It has the same ~1% carbon as 19C27 and 440C, but intermediate chromium content of 15%, whereas 19C27 has 13% and 440C has 17%. SG2 has less vanadium carbide than steels like Elmax, S35VN, S30V, and M390, which likely makes finishing it easier than those alternatives. I have a sg2 miyabi Birchwood and I absolutely love it, the thing has … @mezzadracuchillos. [1] http://www.e-tokko.com/profile.php?lang=en, [2] http://www.e-tokko.com/original.php?lang=en, [3] http://www.e-tokko.com/v_gold_10.php?lang=en. The metallurgic content is a bit different however. And the vanadium addition for an improvement in wear resistance without an excessive addition. The knife is designed using composite blade technology, along with the stainless-steel upper that promises a premium cutting edge. I used a 1975°F austenitize for VG10 and a 2000°F austenitize for SG2, each for 20 minutes, plate quenched, liquid nitrogen, and then tempered twice for 2 hours at 400°F. They state in the patent that Mo and W were added to improve hardness, toughness, and corrosion resistance. Presumably they ended up with SG2 to favor higher hardness and wear resistance. All knives look the same as all the others, and … Amplio catálogo de las mejores marcas. Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Carpenter BD1N, Hitachi GIN-5, Takefu SG2, Takefu VG10 Version 4.36 Super Gold 2 and S30V both have lower chromium (14-15%) in combination with high Mo (2-3%). I also have the impression, though I haven’t confirmed it, that the manufacturers reputed to get good results from VG10 tend to be the ones who also work more exotic powder steels (ZDP-189, Cowry-X, HAP 40, etc.) Read more about corrosion resistance here. They performed pretty similarly in the 1% saltwater test so I will not be adjusting them. The Miyabi Kaizen line is praised as one … The patent doesn’t explain the rating system. Mark Richmond Co-Owner … So this leaves me wondering: is the heat treatment regimen for VG10 complex or unusual in anyway? It also appears to be a bit better than Elmax when compensated for hardness. The wear resistance also correlated with carbon content, as would be expected from the increasing amount of carbide: The inventors performed a series of corrosion tests to relatively rank the corrosion resistance of each steel. Zelite Infinity 8" Damascus Steel Chef Knife AUS-10 Stainless Steel Blade Lasts a Lifetime. The R2 SG2 Powdered High Speed Stainless Steel series is one of the Premium and Professional Model. Also, when you order this knife, it comes in a snug box for better storage. They also performed a “natural weather exposure” test in the far right column which was given a rating by circles, triangles, or x. When it comes down to the appearance, it might be a bit rustic but it looks great. This blade is beautiful, I would have gone with it purely based … The hardness for both ended up very similar, about 60.7 Rc. They don’t appear to make Super Gold 1 anymore though it could be one of the other grades in the patent. And SG2 predated steels like S90V and S30V. The low tempering temperature almost always leads to better corrosion resistance, because the high tempering temperature leads to the precipitation of tiny chromium and molybdenum carbides which reduces corrosion resistance. Higher values mean better toughness. You can read more about those carbides in this article. Jul 24, 2013 #6 The only thing is that the Miyabi designation for … 8 Common Anova Sous Vide Problems (Troubleshooting). But IIRC, most VG-10 Is targeted around HRC61 . I’m not familiar with this wear test so I can only give the test parameters. larrin amazing job!! The edge retention was estimated using the method described in this article. The knife set is from Yarenh, which is not listed as a brand on AliExpress. Here is a comparison with a few other stainless steels and the approximate date each was released. Thanks to Larry Elletson, Tim Sigwarth, Steve Matthes, Curtis Seizert, Kristian Gasparius, and Will Collins for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! All things equal, I would have probably placed it near S35VN in terms of overall performance, so its neat to see that confirmed (though the fact that it is effectively a Japan-exclusive steel gives it a certain cachet that a Crucible product won’t have). S60V and M390 already existed though M390 had not yet been used in knives at that point. This is actually the engineered wood which has a high-strength level. One might think that knife is only about the handle and blade but it’s more about the sharpness and the edges. As far as the functions and tasks are concerned, this knife is great for peeling, trimming, cutting, slicing, precision cutting, and dicing. Romano Beans vs Pinto Beans: What’s the Difference? This is actually a Japanese knife and is handmade. Searzall vs Heat Gun: What’s The Difference? I expected VG10 to have somewhat less carbide than it has. Cobalt additions to steels for this purpose were not unheard of but VG10 is the first stainless steel I know of with a cobalt addition for tempering resistance. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). Super Gold 2 is produced with powder metallurgy to have a fine microstructure and good toughness. This steel is very hard and also very tough. The website states that VG10 was developed for knives “over 60 years ago” [3] and with the current website having been updated in April 2019 that would put the development of VG10 at 1959 or perhaps a couple years earlier. If playback doesn't begin shortly, try restarting your device. In addition, having the right knife is important, because hey, the cheese knife cannot chop and slice your veggies. Myabi knows what they are doing. You can compare with other steels in the mega micrograph article. Miyabi Kaizen 8-inch Chef’s Knife. This puts it in line with other high carbide stainless steels. Made by Takefu Special Steel … Vanadium carbides are harder than the standard abrasive aluminum oxide which means that polishing steel with significant amounts of vanadium carbide is more difficult, whether for finishing a blade or sharpening to high grit. Does it require a longer and/or hotter temper than similar stainless steels without the Cobalt? With its 2% vanadium we would expect it to be a bit below Elmax, S30V, and S35VN, which is also where the estimate puts it. 154cm vs vg10. On the contrary, there are some downsides to it. Miyabi VG10 Steel Vs. Miyabi SG2 … This knife has an alloy steel construction that’s pretty great since it’s lightweight and delivers promising cutting performance. We won't send you spam. VG1: A predecessor of VG10, VG1 is an amazing steel with much of the same qualities as VG10. Unsubscribe at any time. In the patent, Takefu lists several steels that were analyzed to develop SG2 (1-7), and those were compared to the standard grades D2 and 440C: The patent does not describe much where these different alloy amounts came from. Or a somewhat inaccurate estimate of alloy in solution from Thermo-Calc. Super Gold 2 looks a lot like other PM stainless steels with a low vanadium carbide content. Chuck Roll vs Chuck Roast: What’s The Difference? We now have over 150 supporters! Anova vs Instant Pot Sous Vide: What’s The Difference? According to the chemical composition and the HRC of the VG10 stainless steel, it offers the following properties: Edge Retention: With a 60HRC steel, the VG 10 is a hard steel that offers a great edge … First of all, this knife demands suitable storage to ensure it ages properly. This cutting angle demands lesser work for cutting and also cuts thin. Thanks Michael. And SG2 is in the same approximate property range as other PM stainless steels like Elmax and S35VN. I have three knives in those three steel in mind. Select Page. The test piece hardness was 60 Rc of SCM435 with a friction distance of 200 meters and a load of 6.3 kg. In (kitchen) knife forums VG10 seems to have a reputation for being brittle from most Japanese knife makers, though performing as expected from some others. SG2 is of a similar composition, but better mixed and more heavily alloyed. Info. VG-10 is a dependable stainless steel. In addition, the cutting angle of this knife is 16-degrees, hence easier cooking. I was excited to get some because these steels are often difficult to obtain outside of Japan. Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Aichi AUS10, Takefu SG2, Nachi-Fujikoshi SRS-15, Nachi-Fujikoshi SRS15, Takefu VG10 Version 4.36 However, this also does not utilize the contribution of Mo. The vanadium leads to the formation of vanadium carbides and increases the hardness of the chromium carbides, and both of those improve wear resistance and edge retention. Every kitchen needs knives because, to be honest, the kitchen is incomplete without the knives. To summarize, it’s a great knife for people who want one for every task (yes, it’s a multi-tasking knife!). Instant Pot vs Aroma Rice Cooker: What’s The Difference? All in all, the handle is pretty durable and the sleek design looks pretty elegant. This knife by Shun is a spectacular … Has great edge retention and is surprisingly easy to sharpen. First I heat treated the specimens with the same heat treatment used for toughness testing. The best toughness was found with grade 1; grades 2, 4, and 5 were a small step down. The material has been used for production of cemented carbide cutting tool, and recently applied to … In terms of properties neither really stands out as being an amazing performer, though they are in line with expectations. They are interested in the high tempering range in case the steel is used for coatings or other applications requiring high tempering resistance. Juan from Argentina. The design of VG10 includes 1% Mo and 0.2% V which are common additions to older steels like A2 and D2. We’ll see what elmax does if i get it up to there… like your experiment with higher temps for s45vn. Here is a look at the entire line of Yaxell Gyuto Chef knives. Don't Miss Out On A New Pressure Cooker Recipe. [4] “Uniform organization of stainless steel cutlery.” Japanese Patent 2764659, issued June 11, 1998. My favourite knife is a Kurosaki bunka in SG2, and it has had exceptional edge holding (better than some more high tech steels), but this is probably due to its geometry and higher HRC than the model assumes. More carbon leads to more carbide which reduces chromium “in solution.” The chromium in solution is what contributes to corrosion resistance. The 14-15% Cr probably came from their previous VG steels. Also, Could you explain more about the PS60 steel vs VG10/VGMax vs BD1N and SG2? Tojiro DP Gyutou. Oxford Damascus VG10 is a popular and one of the most expensive options. This also shows that the cobalt addition to VG10 is not strongly affecting its corrosion resistance, either positively or negatively. I don’t recommend the high temper with stainless steels so I won’t be analyzing that data closely. The blade has a tsuchime hammering that’s responsible for ensuring that food doesn’t stick to the blade. It's in the top 3 bestselling chef's knives and has dozens of popular alternatives in the same price range, such as Shun 8" Classic … HRC of 58+ R2/SG2: R2/SG2 is a high-carbon high alloy … Both VG10 and SG2 were developed by Takefu Special Steel, a company started in 1954 and known for their laminated steel produced for knives [1]. VG1, VG2, and VG5 all have 14% Cr and VG10 15% Cr. We can use Thermo-Calc software to estimate the amount of chromium in solution and rank corrosion resistance that way across all 7 of the steels: That gives a pretty decent correlation (R2 of about 0.7) apart from the HCl data which seems pretty scattered. It also means lower hardness though maximum hardness was not a discussion point within the patent. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. When heat treated to a higher hardness SG2 retains a degree of toughness comparable to VG-10 … They tested the mass loss in 10% hydrochloric acid, 15% sulfuric acid, and 3% hydroflouric acid (lower mass loss means less corrosion). The vanadium helps to refine the grain size and the molybdenum addition helps to improve hardenability so that it can be air cooled and reach its maximum hardness. So I ran the steels through some of my common experiments. However, VG10 looks closer to 440C than it does 19C27. It may be that the carbide volume itself is more the limiting factor for these steels. My impression is that when VG10 was first introduced to the kitchen knife market it was one of the better non-powder steels available. The blade is made with Damascus nickel that promises an intense blade design. Tap to unmute. This steel has extremely good corrosion resistant properties. I next did the same test with 1% salt water after re-finishing them to 400 grit. VG10: VG10 or V Gold 10, is a high quality cutting stainless steel. Toughness was measured with the 3-point bend test. The tipping feature is edge retention as the high-strength and dense design helps with rigidity and durability. The VG10 ended up averaging 5.8 ft-lbs and the SG2 6.5 ft-lbs. However, different steels perform better at different HRC, so it's almost never an apples to apples comparison to simply compare HRC. These are some of the best Japanese-made knives in the world. Other steels which are as good or better, including 14C28N, have been introduced or become popular since. This gives us a good chance to test that equation using an independent dataset: The R2 was increased above 0.9 for the sulfuric and hydroflouric acids, it even improved the hydrochloric but there is one potential outlier throwing everything off. As a result, the edibles are properly cut and nothing is wasted. With this being said, Shun Knife SG2 vs. VG10 is our topic of interest since these knives are pretty famous out there. They have a range of “V-series” steels like V1, V2, V-Toku1, V-Toku2, V-Gin1, and the “V Gold” series which includes VG10 [2]. Shun Knife SG2 vs VG10 Shun Knife SG2. Last but not least, there is a higher price tag but that doesn’t bother us because this knife promises worth of your money! But many knife enthusiasts are interested in the steels because of how common they are in Japan-produced knives. It's a very hard steel, hence its ability to hold that narrow angle edge. Secondly, it doesn’t provide a sheath and the knife seems too heavy for some people (what else did you expect after 65 metal layers?). Coming down to the handle, it is made with TPE and PP polymer blend and has a textured outlook which completely serves the purpose of Japanese knives. The rating for VG10 is 7.9 and SG2 is 7.8. VG10 has no vanadium carbide and SG2 only a small amount (~0.5%) according to Thermo-Calc. On top of everything, this knife comes with a lifetime warranty. Does someone feel the same? The best thing is that good doesn’t get stuck with the blade. It is a bit surprising that VG10 and SG2 are so similar for toughness considering the large difference in carbide structure. You're signed out. THANK YOU. VG10 looks to be somewhere in the 12-16% carbide volume range. and VG-10 161 layer nickel Finishing Hand sharpened on Japanese whetstone Tumbled and polished Polished and blasted Polished, hammered and blasted Polished Polished and ... SG2 powdered steel, …